Creatives Like Us Podcast - Ep3
Subscribe to the ‘Creatives Like Us’ Podcast newsletter
Stay informed and be the first to know when new episodes drop.
“When you walk into a room, own who you are and what you’ve achieved, it’s not about fitting in, it’s about standing out.” – Ayo Abbas
In this episode of Creatives Like Us, host Angela Lyons is joined by marketing consultant and podcaster Ayo Abbas to discuss their collaboration on the upcoming Creatives Like Us networking event for creatives of colour, which will take place on February 13th, 2025. This event will feature inspiring speakers, opportunities for collaboration, and a supportive environment for networking and sharing ideas.
The conversation also explores Ayo’s work as a marketing consultant specialising in the built environment marketing for architects and engineers. Ayo shares her journey from corporate roles to running her own business, Abbas Marketing, and discusses her two podcasts, ‘The Built Environment Marketing Show’ and ‘Interchange’. Ayo is an expert on LinkedIn and believes in the power of personal branding and using the platform to showcase your work, research your industry and make meaningful connections.
She is an award-winning marketing consultant who predominately works with architects and engineers. She was named as the overall winner for the Digital Woman of the Year awards 2022. She started Abbas Marketing as she thought there was a gap in the market for practical marketing advice, particularly for SMEs. Ayo has 24 years of experience in marketing and has represented many major construction and professional services firms.
Links for Ayo
Abbas Marketing website
The Built Environment Marketing Show
Connect with Ayo
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ayoabbas/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ayoabbas/
Threads: https://www.threads.net/@ayoabbas
Links for Angela
This podcast is hosted by Angela Lyons of Lyons Creative.
If you have any questions or suggestions or would like to be featured on this podcast, please email angela@lyonscreative.co.uk
You can follow and connect here:
Instagram
LinkedIn
Podcast website
Instagram - Creatives Like Us Podcast
Join the mailing list
You are also invited to join us for our in-person event, 'Creatives Like Us', in London, on Thursday 13th Feb 2025 - buy your ticket here.
Thinking of starting a podcast?
I use the platform Riverside to record. It’s great for audio, and video plus the bonus is the way it repurposes the recording into social media graphics. I’ll take that to make the marketing of the podcast easier. Take a look and try it out here*.
Buzzsprout is my chosen platform to host Creatives Like Us. Once you upload your podcast, Buzzsprout creates an RSS feed and you have the option to load it to all the popular podcasting platforms such as Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Amazon Podcasts and many more. Take a look and try it here*.
Links for Heather
Produced by award-winning media and marketing specialist Heather Pownall of Heather's Media Hub
Connect with Heather on LinkedIn
The opinions of our host and guests are their own.
If you enjoyed this podcast, please rate, review and subscribe with the podcast provider of your choice or leave us a Google Review here. Thanks!
Chapters/Timestamp
Ayo Abbas introduction
What kind of projects are you working on right now, and how are they creative in your business?
LinkedIn and Personal Branding
Speaking Events
How did Abbas marketing come about?
What are the future plans?
The Creatives Like Us event - all the details
Quick Fire Round
Transcript
Angela
Hello and welcome to Creatives Like Us, where I speak with creatives of colour, who share journeys and stories and ideas, and how they can inspire and open up avenues in creative industries.
In the last episode, I spoke with Dominique. Lots of people have sent me notes saying how they enjoyed it and also led to questions on how they can maybe help or change within organisations. I suppose you can start by talking to people about it and connecting to people who can make a change, even if it's a small one, start local, but you can start talking to people. In this episode, I speak with Ayo Abbas, who is a marketing expert in the built environment.
Ayo works with architects and in creative agencies. Together, Ayo and I have created an event called Creatives Like Us. Yeah, same name as the podcast. We are hosting it in London on February 13th, 2025. And it's for creatives of colour who are in business. They are freelance or wanting to start something.
So we'll come together, we'll network and we'll work on your business together. We can't wait. Can't wait to have you. So there are still a few tickets left if you'd like to join us, and I'll leave the details in the show notes. So let's hear Ayo's story and how she is a creative like us.
Angela
Hi Ayo, and welcome to Creatives Like Us. Thank you for joining me today.
Ayo
Hi, how are you doing? You alright?
Angela
Yeah, I'm good. Thank you. And I've been meaning to talk to you for ages, obviously, and then we've been talking about planning our event and everything like (which we'll talk about very soon, towards the end of the episode). But I'd love to know who you are, and what you do. Let's introduce you to the listeners. Tell me about who you are and what kind of creative are you?
Ayo
So my name's Ayo Abbas, or Ayo if you're doing the right Nigerian pronunciation. And I am a marketing consultant, and I guess my field of specialisation is around business to business marketing. So selling and marketing to corporates, governments, local authorities and that kind of thing. And I work predominantly with architects and engineers really.
Angela
Oh very creative. Do you get to go to their studios?
Ayo
Now and then, when I can be bothered to leave my home office! I think you can do my stuff online now, and I'm a bit of a hermit. And also I find it easier to record conversations and actually be able to take stuff away. So I do a mix, but yeah I do it from home.
Angela
And I think also, I class you as a creative, because you have your own podcast.
Ayo
I do!
Angela
Would you like to tell us a bit about that?
Ayo
I have not even one podcast. I have two podcasts. I have ‘The Built Environment Marketing Show’, which is, I guess it does what it says on the tin. It's a marketing podcast for architects and engineers. And I also do one called ‘Interchange’, which is about integrated transport infrastructure.
Angela
Wow.
Ayo
It's basically, how do you make integrated transport happen? That's basically what it is. And I do that for a client, and I love it.
Angela
Just out of interest. Do you get guests on that?
Ayo
Yes, I do. I recently interviewed the Institution of Civil Engineers president. I've spoken to the Transport Commissioner for Greater Manchester. I talked to people from Highways England, who run all the road networks. I'm about to interview someone from the Department for Transport. So yes, I do!
Angela
Brilliant. That's quite high level.
Ayo
Yes.
Angela
And Google, did you say Google as well? What are you doing for Google?
Ayo
I'm interviewing. They're guesting. They're guesting on ‘Interchange’ to talk about data and AI.
Angela
Wow! What else are you doing? Because you've got, it sounds like you've got enough on your plate, but is there any more?
Ayo
So yeah, I do that. I am also on some steering committees for a thing called Build Up, which is a network for marketers who work in the built environment. I'm a non-exec director for CIC called Make an Impact. And I also am a non-exec for ReLondon, which is a kind of Mayor of London spin off that looks at how you can basically do more waste and like recycling in cities.
Angela
Oh, wow. So these people in your panels, are they recruiting you? Are you approaching them? Or is it a bit of both? Or is it working with pretty much all of them? Are they like, are they all different? Does your work come from them? Do the panels come from different avenues?
Ayo
Oh, doing the non-exec things? The non-execs, no, I set myself a goal about three years ago that one of my kind of midterm goals is that I want to be on some construction boards. And because lots of construction companies, as huge as they are, do not, or are not necessarily very diverse. I'm a woman, and I'm black, so kind of to get there as a stepping stone, I started for free. So I started working for Make an Impact, I became a trustee there. And then what I've done is, in the past few years, I started looking at getting paid for non-exec positions. So that's what I apply for. And I get those, and you get, it's not a huge amount of money, but you do get money for that. And so yeah, to get that experience going, that's kind of one of those things. And I want to be on construction industry boards and construction boards
Angela
Oh wow. So what's the next goal? You're going to get there, are you?
Ayo
Of course I’m going to get there! I think the next target is probably to get a few more non-execs, paying non-exec roles under my belt this year. And I always keep an eye out on the various job boards about it, so if I see something that appeals to me in terms of diversity and inclusion or sorry, that I'm interested, then I'll apply for it.
Angela
Yeah, interesting. It's interesting. Just before our call Ayo and I were talking about a rejection challenge. It's a great challenge because you try to set yourself a target of 100 rejections, but why don't we change that name and reframe it and say the ‘Own It Challenge’? So I'm like, I know this could be your ‘Own It Challenge’, set that as your ‘ Own It Challenge’.
Ayo
No but it is. because rejection makes you feel like you're going into something quite meek. And I just think sometimes it's, actually when you look at your CV, or when other people look at what you've done, and they say, you don't always appreciate how good you are. And I think actually sometimes it's about owning it. Yeah.
Angela
Yeah. So let's own it. Let's say the ‘Own It Challenge’. Not quite the same as rejection is it. Because own it sounds like you’re showing off!
Ayo
I’m going to own it! That’s exactly what I’m going to be doing from now on, thank you my darling!
Angela
So it's great that you're on the boards, and you're on exec committees, but what kind of projects are you working on right now, and how are they creative in your business?
Ayo
I think the key thing I'm working on at the moment, the biggest thing, is actually a rebrand project for a specialist fit out contractor, who are based in the inner city of London. So the full thing about their brand strategy, which I worked on, their tone of voice, their messaging, and now I'm working on the copywriting for their new website. And then I brought in a graphic designer and a web builder, and we're all doing it as a combined project. So it's quite a big project, and I want to do more of that, because it's actually quite nice to collaborate with other people and to build a team and to really go and deliver for that client the whole package.
So there's a lot of more of those opportunities now, especially as the agency model. Does it work anymore? You know, I question that. I think actually there are some expert freelancers out there, and those are the people who could be doing your jobs for you. So why not as freelancers? Why can we not sit there and build those teams, which I think is something I'm going to push more this year as well. I think that's really important.
So I'm doing that. I'm also doing quite a few bits, of kind of general writing and case studies, and various engineering consultancies. I've just finished editing an ESG report.
Angela
What's ESG?
Ayo
Environmental Social Governance - it’s basically the new name for a kind of sustainability. So it's a huge thing about how we're performing as an organisation. So it was, I think it's about 8000 words, yeah. So I do copywriting, but obviously I do production. So I produce that Interchange Podcast. I'm working on three new episodes of that at the moment, so I produce and host that. So I've been working on that and doing research on various things around data, AI, transport, place making. I end up learning lots of stuff about all these different areas of transport. What else am I working on? There's more things. And then I've been working with some solo, small practices and individuals and consultants on basically, on their LinkedIn profiles and all that kind of stuff, and helping them kind of shape up what they're doing. Yeah.
Angela
So actually going into that, so it's helping them brand themselves? And talk about their personal brand. Is it personal branding?
Ayo
Personal branding, yes! It’s just like having a decent profile, just being a bit more polished, and I think a lot of people are missing an opportunity to a) use all that's there for free and just showcase who you are. They're not huge tweaks. Have some words, be searchable, have a banner, you know, all of that kind of stuff. So as someone who's a bit of a kind of LinkedIn addict, it's quite well to do that as well.
Angela
But it's one of your services, though, too? So it's your clients, that's what you're doing. So telling people how to use LinkedIn more effectively, tools for them and their business.
Ayo
Completely. Especially, I think, because I work in the business to business sector, I just think a lot of people will have probably sorted out LinkedIn about five years ago and then just go on it, because they have to. Whereas I think what you can do the platform now, and how it operates is a whole more sophisticated thing, and there's a lot more kind of nuances to it, like the hidden features, like newsletters and going live on it, and there's lots of different ways you can use the platform, and that's what I love about it.
Angela
I think people underestimate it, don't they? A lot of people think that I’ll just go on there and look for a job, and they don't really realise that it's actually a really powerful platform for connections, as well as promoting yourself, and promoting your business, and just chatting to people.
Ayo
But also for research, I often use it for research. What's the size of the market? How many people are in this segment that I need? And actually, that stuff is amazing. Who should I be talking to at this council? Who does this type of role? You can find all that on LinkedIn, even for free. So you just need to know what you're looking for. So yeah, for that stuff, I find it useful.
Angela
I was gonna say one of the things I see that you do on LinkedIn is speak, and you speak really well. And you speak in person. You do events in person. So maybe tell us a little bit more about your speaking events?
Ayo
I do like regular lives. So for example, I go live on LinkedIn once a month with Stacey Meadwell. We call it the B2B Comms Breakdown. So basically it's half an hour of free questions, and we chat about something to do with content marketing. And so we do that. We go live on LinkedIn, basically, you can tune in, and we also stream to YouTube as well. And then we use that as a way to kind of a) chat, but b) to be a way to generate more content. We produce articles, we have social media clips. We have lots of different ways of using that content for our own marketing purposes. So that's what it does. But also it's a good way for us to keep connected with the property world. We've got lots of marketing teams and clients who actually do tune in, or who tune in afterwards. It goes in our newsletter. So it's a great way of fueling our kind of marketing engine, and then repurposing as we go.
Angela
It's a great way to repurpose and also get clients from it?
Ayo
We do! And we get clients who say they watch it. We get people that approach us with projects. We get loads of stuff around it, so it does work. And also sometimes I use it as well for my own podcast. If I haven't got an episode or it's a topic that I think is quite personal.
Angela
Yeah, just repurpose it and yeah, add it up to the Spotify link. Brilliant, fantastic. But how did Abbas Marketing come into being, because obviously working for companies in permanent roles? So how did that come to be your own company, and decide what you want to do?
Ayo
I have to admit that I think the longest I've been in the job is about four years, and I've had a lot of jobs, right? If you look at my CV. So I started counting and I was like, Oh, that's a lot of jobs, but for various reasons. And…
Angela
Do you get bored?
Ayo
I get bored. I kick off. I lose attention. Yeah, I'm not that quiet. I'm not, you know, it's just me. And so, yeah, in 2019 I was working for an ed tech company. I was head of marketing there, and had a team of five. We kind of burned through, our burn rate wasn't great, so we kind of ran out of money. We had a lot of fun. And then end of 2019 I got made redundant, and I was looking for jobs. Didn't really like the jobs I was seeing back in construction, so I thought I'd set up on my own, and that was it!
Angela
End of 2019?
Ayo
My business started in February 2020.
Angela
Oh, wow.
Ayo
Yeah.
Angela
But you did it.
Ayo
I did. I started the business. this. I ripped up a marketing plan for some reason, because of COVID, and then, yeah, I'm still here.
Angela
That's amazing. Well done. You give yourself a big pat on the back there. So thinking about the future. What are your plans for the future?
Ayo
What are my plans for the future? You know what? I wrote this down, and now I’ve completely forgotten what I wrote. So there's a couple of things I'm in the process of writing my marketing plan for the year at the moment. So a lot of it is around what services do I really want to do? And I really want to work more in the kind of speaking and training thing, so I'm going to do more outreach on that. I've got a couple of things coming up on that in February and March.
Angela
I suppose that's the beauty of having your own business, that you can work out your own marketing plan, and decide what you want to work on.
Ayo
And you can decide, yeah. You just decide what you want to dial up and what you want to dial down, which I think is actually quite a lovely thing. Because really, the world is your oyster, and where companies have won, and I think you can do, so you can really just choose how it is you want to fuel your life and your creativity and how you want to use it. And I love speaking and training. That's something I want to do more of. So I'm definitely going to get a showreel together, like February, March, April, time, get a show all together.
Angela
When you say, showreel, some people might not know what that is?
Ayo
So basically, just like video clips, like a movie trailer, of me speaking on stages, and different topics, so I can send that to people who book speakers, and get paid for it. So that's what I'm thinking, is to get a really nice polished thing that I can send out and start approaching and being proactive to get more of what I want to do. So that's one part.
Definitely, I'm kind of looking at potentially doing some of my own events more, so apart from Creative Like Us, I'm also looking at partner dinners and stuff like that, with other kinds of senior level people from built environment firms. And yes, there's lots of things like that I want to do. And I also have this kind of thing that I want to do around telling engineering stories. There's a whole load of seminal engineers who started their own practices in the 80s, and a lot of them are getting on a bit, really, and I want to capture some of their stories. So I am a bit of an engineering geek. That's kind of,I'm quite happy to talk about that stuff, but I need to figure out a plan for that and put a proposal together and get that funded.
Angela
Yeah. So just out of interest, when you go and talk to these people, do pretty much, most of them know who you are? Or do they get shocked when they see Ayo turn up in a room and think, Oh, my God, there's a woman and she's black. Have you had any reactions where people have gone, oh hello!
Ayo
Not so much. But do you know what? Because I'm on LinkedIn so much now, I think people are just, you're just always there. I don't think that shock factor is necessarily there for me as much as it once was. So yeah, to be honest, now I get people to come up to go, are you Ayo, or something like that, which is also quite weird, but so that's a better thing, really. So yeah, people aren't really that shocked anymore.
Angela
Yeah, being out there and being on social media, everyone can look up your profile and see who you are and what you're about, whereas back in the day, you just had your piece of paper, your CV, or your portfolio, that you sent it on PDF, and no one knew anything about you.
Ayo
And generally if I walk into a room where there's lots of engineers and architects, I've been in the industry for 24 years, and I've worked in most places (when I had my lots of jobs), so I know most people!
Angela
So it's not a shock or a surprise.
Ayo
It’s generally, hi! Rather than anything else, yeah.
Angela
That must feel good?
Ayo
It does. It's really nice. Actually, it's really nice. Yeah, because you go hi and you just yeah, you walk into events loads of people, which is always useful, yeah? It also just means you just have lots of knowledge about lots of random topics as well, which I do.
Sometimes people don't even talk about what they're there for. They could just be talking about life and different things in general, and networking. And speaking of networking, what are we doing?
Angela
What are we doing? Ayo and I are putting on an event in February. We're recording this in January, so I think your episode will be out in a few weeks time… will be and we're putting an event called Creatives Like Us, the same name as the podcast, and it's hosted in ustwo venue. They've kindly let us have the venue, and Ayo and I are putting on an event, a networking evening for black creatives, creators of colour.
Ayo
Who run their own businesses. And it's in Shoreditch in London, and we're really looking forward to it. It's good fun, and we've got an amazing speaker line up. We're so excited! So we can't, we're gonna release that very soon, so look out for that. But yeah, and I guess by the time this comes out, there's gonna be a few tickets left, because we're going pretty well on ticket sales.
Angela
Oh my gosh, the ticket sales. I love it, because every time we get a ticket sale, it doesn't matter what time of day, Ayo will email me or text me to say we got another one! Yeah! We're up to a really good number. And it's just, it's amazing, and people have been sharing and supporting us. Want to give a shout out to Creative Boom Websites and Katie Cowan, she has been absolutely amazing, and she's given us space on her website for advertising. Also, I'd love to shout out right now, Freelance Magazine, and Sophie Cross, she's given us an advert in the magazine, and, oh gosh, so many people. You are the Media who gave us a shout out. Who else? We've had people personally buy tickets and want to give them back to people. So we're working out a process of gifting them to people that we know, or people or we're going to do, we're going to do some shout outs for that too. But yeah, like Heather Panel, Nicky Pilkington and Dominique from the Werks, just been amazing, just supporting us and giving us, buying tickets from us and gifting them back to people. And yeah, we're giving some of those tickets to students…
Ayo
20% of the ticket. Yeah the Shoreditch Trust as well.
Angela
Yeah. So, a lot of it is about paying back, giving back. So, yeah, we've got some delicious food on the evening too.
Ayo
That's gonna be a really good, fun event, and we'll see how that goes. But yeah, just looking forward to seeing lots of people, and I guess it's just having a chance to come together and network, but also to work on our businesses as well. And I think some of the kind of Hive masterminds where we're doing, where people can talk around, check some of their challenges, and get some ideas and new responses, I think will be really good fun. And we've got an amazing keynote, who's brilliant.
Angela
Yeah, she's brilliant. She's brilliant. And another thing is, I think come, even if you're worried about networking, it's such a chilled evening. Ayo and I have been to loads of networking events, and I'm also very aware of people that are not comfortable with networking events. I've had people DM me and say, Oh, I don't know, because I don't really want to put myself out there at all. I'm like, Do you know what? Just come, we'll look after you. It won't be too overpowering, and we have capped numbers, so it's not going to be a massive event. It's like very small but big impact.
Ayo
Small insights, but big in impact. Let's use that, that could be our tagline!
Angela
So that’s on the 13th of February. That's Thursday 13th, February, and we have tickets. I'll put the link in the notes, but it's on Ayo Abbas Marketing. https://creativeslikeusevent.abbasmarketing.com/ But we'll put the link in the show notes so you can book your tickets. We still have some left, and it'll be fabulous to see you. And also, I think another thing that people have asked me said, Oh, do I have to be a painter or a designer or an artist to come because that's creative and I said, no, Ayo is a marketer, we have writers, we have someone that writes poetry coming. We have illustrators. Yes, I'm a graphic designer, yes. So if you are an architect, we've got lawyers. If you are a creative and you're running your own business and you're a person of colour, you have to promote your business. You have to sell yourself in the business. So this is another way to meet other creatives who are doing the same thing and come join us!
Ayo
Also, I think creativity is a lot of mindset as well, isn't it? It's also about, like, how you tackle life. And I do think there's also that element.
Angela
Yeah.
Ayo
Suddenly came to my brain.
Angela
Yes. But I spoke with Heather, no, when I got the Nando's packet? I wrote creatives, um, because I found the Latin word for creative, it's Kratos, which means bring into being. And I said to Ayo, can I print those on T-shirts? And she just said, we haven’t got the budget! I'm like, okay, she's the sensible one in this relationship!
Ayo
I'm the skint one at the moment that’s why!
Angela
Whereas I’m like, spend, spend, spend! But yeah, so creatives are to bring it into being, and that's what we're doing with Creatives Like Us. So Ayo, what would you tell your teenage self?
Ayo
Just not to worry and just get on and do it!
Angela
Brilliant. Anything else?
Ayo
That I'm fantastic.
Angela
Okay, that's another thing about Ayo, she just makes you laugh. Because when we’re on calls, we always just end up giggling. But anyway, I'm gonna try not to giggle too much at this last section, which is the quick fire five question. So, you have to answer one or the other.
Okay, and quickly..
Crisps or chocolate?
Ayo
Crisps
Angela
Beach or forest?
Ayo
Beach.
Angela
Book or Kindle?
Ayo
Book.
Angela
Reggae or Soul?
Ayo
Soul.
Angela
Patty or Sandwich?
Ayo
Patty. Ah that was quick! Food related!
Angela
Thank you so much for joining me, and thank you for your time. I appreciate it. I know we're both busy people, and I'm looking forward to the events. So thank you so much. And can you tell people where they can find you? And obviously I'll put the links in the show notes, but just verbally saying to people where they can find you.
Ayo
So verbally, you can find me at https://www.abbasmarketing.com/ You can find me there. And my podcast, which is the Built Environment Marketing Show and Interchange, they are both on Spotify or Apple wherever you listen.
Angela
Brilliant. Thank you so much!
Ayo
No worries. Thank you so much. Byyyeee!
Angela
Let me start by giving thanks. Thank you for tuning in to Creatives Like Us. I hope you enjoyed this episode and found it thought provoking, inspiring and entertaining. If you did, it would absolutely make my day if you could share, subscribe, rate, review, wherever you get your podcast from. Also, if you have a question or a comment, I'd love to hear from you, all the ways to connect are in the notes, until next time, keep being creative like us.
Hi, Angela again, a little bit of a housekeeping. In my excitement of launching the podcast, I totally forgot to tell you when the episodes are being released and a few people have asked already. So they're every two weeks on a Thursday. So subscribe and it will pop up wherever you get your podcast. Thank you so much
* This will contain an affiliate link. I will get some monies from it. I only promote the things I use and work well for me.
